Guest: Linus Torvalds (LinkedIn)
Organization: Linux Foundation (Twitter)
Show: Let’s Talk

Linus Torvalds, the creator and maintainer of the Linux kernel, joined me at the recent Open Source Summit in Vienna for an insightful conversation covering a wide range of topics. He discussed his ongoing role in the Linux kernel’s development, emphasizing his focus on merging and maintaining stability.

Torvalds pointed out a significant shift in the open-source community, where development is now driven more by large companies with specific needs than by individual contributors. This change, he said, has resulted in a more structured and hierarchical approach to development. Torvalds also highlighted the importance of security, criticizing long embargoes on hardware security issues.

He expressed skepticism about the current AI hype, preferring to focus on practical applications. When it came to programming languages, Torvalds also mentioned his preference for C over Rust and his dislike for synchronous meetings, opting for asynchronous communication via email. He wrapped up by expressing his continued interest in the intersection of hardware and software development.

Questions discussed

• How has the Linux kernel community changed over the years?
• What are Torvalds’ thoughts on the adoption of Linux across different platforms?
• How does Torvalds view the current state of maintainers in the kernel community?
• What are Torvalds’ thoughts on new programming languages like Rust being introduced to the kernel?
• How does Torvalds view the current state of security in kernel development?
• What are Torvalds’ thoughts on AI and other emerging technologies?

Linux Adoption and Development

• Torvalds discusses his current role, focusing on merging and acting as a connection point, with technical issues being smoothly resolved.
• Torvalds emphasizes that he cares about Linux being widely used for finding bugs and new use cases rather than market share.

Changes in the Linux Community

• Torvalds talks about the contrast between the early days of Linux and today, noting the shift from individual contributors to large companies with specific needs.
• Torvalds discusses the change in the kernel community from a smaller, more personal group to a larger, more organized one with a hierarchy of developers.
• Torvalds mentions that he now relies on a smaller group of top maintainers and trusts them to handle the workload.

Maintainer Shortage and Stress

• Torvalds acknowledges that there are more developers than maintainers, which could be healthier if there were more maintainers to spread the workload.
• Torvalds explains that being a maintainer can be very stressful, especially for those handling large subsystems.
• Torvalds mentions that the kernel community is still growing, and there are efforts to attract new maintainers, but it remains a challenging job.

Future of Linux and Open Source

• Torvalds remarked that companies that fail to contribute back to Linux and open source will be left behind, missing out on future developments and new features. In his view, active participation is essential for staying aligned with the evolving direction of the ecosystem.
• Torvalds emphasizes that open source is essential for basic infrastructure and that custom, commercial operating systems are no longer viable.
• Torvalds discusses the importance of open source in various industries, including microcontrollers and embedded systems.

Interaction with New Developers

• Torvalds mentions that he doesn’t interact much with new developers due to personality issues and prefers technical discussions with other maintainers. However, he occasionally answers interesting emails from high school students or other enthusiastic individuals.
• Torvalds prefers email for communication, finding it more suitable for his workflow and less disruptive than synchronous meetings or video calls.

Work-Life Balance and Communication Preferences

• Torvalds shared his thoughts on work-life balance and communication, expressing a dislike for synchronous meetings. He avoids them to preserve his focus and maintain a steady workflow without interruptions.
• Torvalds mentions that he has created several projects, including Git and Subsurface, to meet his needs, but he hopes others will create new tools in the future.

Linux Desktop and Modern Trends

• Torvalds mentions that the web browser has become a significant part of the Linux desktop experience, making many traditional applications obsolete.
• Torvalds discusses the potential of the Linux desktop, noting that it has become a default choice for many devices, including the Steam Deck and Android.
• Torvalds believes that the Linux desktop will continue to evolve and adapt to new technologies and user needs.

Security and Embargoes

• Torvalds emphasizes the importance of treating security issues as regular bugs and resisting secrecy and long embargoes.
• Torvalds mentions that security bugs can sometimes be trivial but become important later, requiring backporting to older versions of the kernel.
• Torvalds believes that security should be integrated into the development process and not treated as a separate issue.

Modern Technologies and AI

• Torvalds expresses skepticism about the current hype around AI and believes that the real impact of AI will become clearer in the future.
• Torvalds mentions that he focuses on what interests him, which is the intersection of hardware and software, and he doesn’t follow every new technology trend.
• Torvalds believes that new technologies should be evaluated based on their practical applications and not just their hype.

EVs and Personal Interests

• Sharing his thoughts on electric vehicles (EVs) and self-driving technology, Torvalds expressed his appreciation for EVs for their smooth acceleration and simplicity compared to combustion engines.
• Torvalds is not particularly interested in self-driving technology but appreciates the basic features of modern EVs.
• Torvalds mentions that he has hobbies like reading and scuba diving but doesn’t have many other personal interests.